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Experiencing anxiety and panic attacks can often lead us to do more (and more) to try to manage and control them. Lily Sais found herself in exactly this situation – working with children as a school psychologist while suffering in silence about her own anxiety. When she found the Three Principles she was released from all that she was doing to try to manage her symptoms and now she helps others find that same freedom.

You can find Lily Sais at Peace-From-Within.com and on Instagram @_peacefromwithin.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, links, resources and a full transcript are below. 

Show Notes

• Working as a school psychologist while struggling with anxiety and panic attacks
• How there is always less for us to do than we think
• How our mental health is always with us
• Learning that we have choices about what we focus on
• How we can unintentionally argue for our limitations

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Sarie Taylor’s website
• Spark curriculum
• Jack Pransky’s book Somebody Should Have Told Us
• Lily’s blog post on body sensations
• Nicola Bird’s podcast

Transcript of Interview with Lily Sais

Alexandra: Lily Sais thank you so much for being here with me on Unbroken.

Lily: Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Alexandra: My pleasure.

Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got interested in the three principles.

Lily: Prior to coming into the three principles understanding I was a school psychologist. And what actually led me to the three principals was my own mental health struggles.

I struggled with anxiety for a lot of my life. But then it really ramped up in 2011 when I had a panic attack, I had a bad reaction to a medication. And so I had a panic attack that involves derealization and depersonalization. This feeling of like unreality, and like I was losing my mind. And I had it when I was driving on the freeway in Los Angeles. 

Actually quite a few people, their first panic attack will be driving or on a plane or something like that. But so as what happens with some people is that I started having like panic about panic, and you know, associating it with driving, and living in Los Angeles, we do rely on our cars a lot. So I had a lot of thinking about it. 

And so I just tried so many things. I’ve always been interested in mental health and I just really ramped it up after having a panic attack. I’m really interested in somatic therapy, neurofeedback, cognitive behavioral therapy. I also get really into it, I’m like, Oh, my God, this is going to be it. And I’d want to and think about sharing some of it with the students that I would see and bringing it in, and going on retreats. And so I get really into it. 

But nothing was long lasting. For me, I would still find and I think a lot of it was I built up this idea that I was different, there was a lot I needed to do for my mental health. And sometimes if it was like biohacking and the importance of sleep and mantras, and a morning routine. So I think these things that can be maybe helpful for some people are meditation and mindfulness, because I can then take it to like the nth degree and be like, well, I’m going to be certified to teach meditation and mindfulness, which I was, or I’m going to be certified to teach yoga to children. And if I do these things, and I’m going to meditate every morning and every night. 

I just was like burnt out and tired and still anxious. So after seven years of like, a lot of trying to have the perfect diet, the perfect routine. It was like another day of barely making it to work with panic that I just put into Google again, like I don’t know, anxiety, panic, help. Up popped Sarie Taylor, who’s now a friend and colleague, but she had like either a five or seven day anxiety course. And she just sent you this little video, 30 minutes every day. And she introduced me to the principles. This is in May 2018. and I are like right before then. And I kind of just thought, Alright, here’s this other thing I’m going to try. 

But I heard things that I hadn’t really heard. And one of them was there was less for me to do. No. And I started to see that my wisdom got me through every panic attack. And it was also very welcome, like, doing less. So I kind of was curious, like, Wait, there’s less for me to do. And then it’s just changed my life. So that’s how I came into the three principles understanding and I saw the benefits that it had for me, and I got excited to share it as a school psychologist. 

They started doing the Spark curriculum, because it’s an evidence based curriculum. And as a school psychologist they like highlight evidence based. And luckily, there’s the three principles, evidence based curriculum. But even just I had read Jack Pransky’s book, Somebody Should Have Told Us and so I started incorporating some of that to the talk with the senior students. Just especially that green, yellow, red light, like when to make decisions, how to use them, I felt like some really important lesson. 

So I started sharing the principles as a school psychologist, but then I still had this desire to share it with adults because I was like, Why didn’t anybody tell people with anxiety about this? That it was so simple, so long lasting? For me, it was the simplicity was because I had never heard anybody say, oh, there’s less for you to do. 

I think with some people with a tendency towards anxiety or a tendency towards OCD like that, you can have these obsessions and like do doing, it was so different, like, you don’t have to try you don’t have to do. I think it was once I stopped doing my nervous system just settled on its own, my brain rewired itself. 

Not knocking Joe Dispenza but there was a time when I’m like, I can rewire my brain and I would get up and listen to his hour long recordings and our brain can have new neural pathways, no hard work on our part. So it was the principles, all these things that were like, Oh, this is so cool. 

But I thought, now I have to work hard at it. And for me, when I worked hard at it, I think for other people, maybe they can do it. And it’s and they don’t have more thinking about it for me, and a lot of people that are drawn to me, the more we thought about it and try, the more we stayed in it. And the more we ramped up, probably the stress hormones. So yes, I’m it’s kind of a long thing. So I got excited to share with adults. And then I finally started doing it during the pandemic, because people were online.

Alexandra: One of the things, there’s so much in there that you said, but one of the things that really stuck out to me was your feeling that you were different, that somehow and this is so common, and I did it too, we feel like oh, no, my problem is a little bit special. It’s a little bit different. I’m not like everybody else. I just wanted to touch on that a little bit. 

I think it’s important because what we’re pointing to in the principles is how we all work exactly the same, right?

Lily: I used to think I’m just an anxious person. So that’s one story, which is so funny, because I would never think of myself as an anxious person. Now, I definitely have a tendency towards anxiety like that’s where my love letters will go rather than something else. But especially once my when I after having a panic attack, I was more like, I have severe mental illness and so that was my children’s father, who’s my ex husband, our brains just work a little bit differently. 

Also, I think maybe having ADHD and like some neuro divergence. I remember one time, I don’t know who asked who first, what are you thinking? And I told him everything that I was thinking, which was a much busier mind than I would have now. So there might be times when I would just probably I don’t know, if someone asked me now what I would be thinking it might just be, I don’t know, one thing, you know, but I think back then, it was until I told him and he was like, what about you? He said, nothing.

But I think my mind was busier. But sorry, this was a tangent. And I guess there was two things of why I thought it was different. He also was much more in a state of well being. I am in a state of well being now. But I thought I didn’t recognize it as just like, oh, that my mental health was always there. I more took it as like, he can stay up late, he can eat the snacks, he can watch TV, I’m different. Like I’m on. I thought for me, I was struggling with my mental health. But also I could lose my mind. 

Sometimes I would be in this thing of jealous of other people that could just live a normal life. Like I can’t, you know, and he would just do whatever, like stay up late and like fall asleep in front of the TV. I would be like jealous, but also feel bad for myself. Like, I can’t do that because I might have a mental illness. I can’t just watch TV and wake up and drink coffee. I have to have my hour long night routine, and my hour long morning routine, just to maintain this horrible place that I’m at because but also if I don’t, I could have a panic attack and maybe lose my mind. And so that kind of wavered between jealousy and dignity. 

But also I’m struggling so, it was all an illusion to because I didn’t now I look at my phone and read my book and sometimes. I just have such a story I had like I thought I was such a oh my god I had trouble sleeping. I fell asleep all the time to the TV. It’s harder for me actually sometimes to stay awake to my boyfriend because we want to watch a show it I thought oh no, I have to I can’t just fall asleep to TV the blue light and the like I need to have this long routine. 

That was where I was at in this story too. My cousin and his wife who I’m very close with they just had a baby and so I went home with them from the hospital and so I was really up within the first two nights that we were home. I never slept. I had a client right the next day because I changed everybody or I put everybody off besides my morning clients, because I kind of thought I’d be home. And so it’s like, now where I’m at. It’s not only that I’m different. I know that my spirit’s not even touched, if I don’t sleep. Obviously, I prefer to sleep. But my understanding is so different. 

I would have thought before, I’m somebody who needs eight hours of sleep, and I’m sure that still someone who feels good to get sleep. But I didn’t sleep much for two days. And I had clients and I know I just show up. I drove even. I would have had to do all these things. And, and I so see, now, if I wouldn’t sleep, I would have been like, Oh, I’m not fit to be around. Anybody just locked me in my room because I would have canceled the day. And I was with the baby. And I saw clients and their midwife came over and I needed to do something. Sure they just drive my car before I would have been like, I can’t I can’t drive a car on no sleep and someone’s car. And so all of those were just false stories.

Alexandra: I really can hear when it comes to anxiety, all the management of it, it really adds to the problem. I talk about like a snowball rolling downhill, you’ve got the original thing. And then if you roll it downhill and do all this management, it just adds and adds and adds to the problem. 

I loved what you said about how simple the principles are, and how it takes that sort of thing away and just makes everything easier, in a way. 

You’ve mentioned bringing this into the with the kids at your schools and stuff. And I’m just always curious, where do you begin with them? 

If someone is in your office, and they have are having anxiety where would you start?

Lily: I don’t work with kids as much for the past three years. But I can talk about where I’d start with adults. Well, with kids, if a kid came in and they wanted, they were talking to me about being anxious. Where would I start?

It’s hard for me to say it because I guess I don’t know if I have a set thing. I just listen. I think even before I came into the principles, I just I listened. I think sometimes If it works share a story about myself are always interesting. I remember when I did this, so I think and with kids, it depends on their age, but a lot of it I would find withdrawing with playing. And that’s where we have a conversation. So we’re like with books.

In some kids, they come in and they just want to talk, I think but that’s probably like 10% of kids. So when I worked with kids, and I did for as a school psychologist for 13 years, but before that I was a nanny and then a preschool teacher and ran an after school program. So the kids are just kind of having a chat. But even with high schoolers, we play Uno or we’d play basketball or we just like play a game. And then they would talk so I never would put pressure on. 

With younger kids who would often come out with a play. And whether they were drawing and then they would draw something about it or they would have me draw something. And I know I’m trying to say how do I talk about the principles? I guess it’s hard for me to say where I start, I guess just because it’s kind of in the moment. 

But even for example I talked with my son and my daughter are into embroidery. And so they’re embroidering their backpacks. They both had their first day of school yesterday, and they both are social and did stuff with friends but they had a plan to embroider but my son went to his friend’s house for dinner. And so he didn’t come back until later. And but he’s like, Oh, can I still hang out with his sister? And I said yeah, for a little bit, but I actually let it go even 20 more minutes but he wasn’t finished. He’s embroidering a football on his backpack. 

And so I told him, I don’t think we’re going to get the embroidery done in half an hour. So I had come in and I’m like, okay, even 15 more minutes. So then I was like now it’s like it was 9:20, which is pretty late for a nine year old because we still do the night routine, who’s very disappointed. And so he said, I can’t go to school with an unfinished backpack. Mom, you would hate to go to school with something unfinished. 

I actually have a tattoo. And it’s my maiden name and the name of my mom’s last name with my two older sisters last name. But it was a complicated thing of getting it and they actually misspelled one of the names. So they left out and it was supposed to have two rs. So I said, Hey, remember when I got this tattoo, and I had to wait three days. So I said, I had a name spelled wrong on me. And I said, I remember because I was looking. And it was right around July 4. And so it was like, No, I couldn’t fix it. And I said to him, I remember thinking I can’t go out of the house with a misspelled name. 

And then I realized I had the power to focus on it. Or it felt like or I could just let it go and know. And so it was kind of felt like the choice was up to me. And I decided, well, I’m just goint o let it go. 

That, to me, is the essence of the principles of yes, we can’t control our thoughts. So I just kind of introduced that to him. I don’t know if it was, it was funny, because then my daughter was like, Oh, you divert you, you left these things out of your backpack. So then he’s like, oh, and then I said, I’m ready to get a new Batman. He’s like, Mom, I tried your thing of not thinking about it. And then Mary said, backpack and you said bathmat, and I said, Oh, yeah, I said, I know. And I said, I didn’t really mean oh, I’m not going to think about it. 

But to me, I said, I think what we can see all I can focus on it. Or I can let that thought come and go. I said you might be surprised that sometimes it might seem a big deal, and you get involved with your friend. And so even that we’re not talking about anxiety, but the principles are always at play. Where to me, it’s just oh, it comes into our mind. And then it flows and we can make it as big as we want. 

Alexandra: That’s such a great example with your son’s backpack. That’s amazing. 

And looking back at your experience of with anxiety and that kind of thing one of the questions I had for you was-

if there was one thing that you could share, and maybe you’ve already touched on it about the experience of anxiety, what would that be?

Lily: I don’t know if this is the right thing, but it came to me and it keeps coming, whoever’s listening, if you have anxiety, you’re very unique. You really are you’re special. And your anxietie is not.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s great. Say more about that.

Lily: I think you touched on that when we think Oh, nobody has anxiety is that is me. Some people might be thinking that and it’s sometimes I get that comment on social media where you must have never had anxiety, or you have must have not had it so badly. 

I think often when we’re in our experience, we think, and I’m not denying how painful experiencing anxiety and panic and OCD can be but we think about ourselves so much. And we think if we hear other people, well, whatever this easy principles thing, she’s fine, it works for her, but she doesn’t know me and she doesn’t know my trauma, and she doesn’t know that I’ve experienced anxiety forever. And  also, I have these physical symptoms, or I have OCD, and we can really unintentionally argue for our limitations. Or sometimes think Oh, but I did this thing, or I have these thoughts, or somehow mental health is not for me. This easiness it doesn’t apply to me at all. 

I think also for me, it was really until I met Sarie Taylor I just I didn’t even feel like I’d know, my psychiatrist or therapist, like they just don’t get it. I really thought something was wrong with me. And so I think part too, is like really not to believe our thinking when we feel low. Because we have that low thinking whether it’s this is who I am, this is how I’m always going to be or this is even worse than anxiety. This has to be more but then we take it with us even when we feel better. 

It’s really to not to leave those low thoughts down there. So just really the power of I think not taking your thinking seriously when you feel low, because I could see that I did that. So even when I felt better, I would bring these stories about myself up.

Alexandra: That’s such a good point. One of the other things I wanted to talk to you about, and you mentioned it just there about body symptoms, or earlier you mentioned and how, and I know, for people with anxiety that can feel like the next level of problem, right. 

You have a blog post that talks about hyper fixating on that. Could you tell us a bit about that? And what you see.

Lily: When we activate their stress response, so the flight or fight response, which is so great, like, I’m so cool that human beings have that. So if God forbid, I was in a car crash with my children, hormones would be released, various things would be activated, like I would be flooded to feel faster and stronger, I would also probably dissociate a little bit, I would be a little bit removed. So I wouldn’t be like, Oh, my God, we just were in a horrible car accident. But so many things could happen. So I probably, you know, that happened when we are in true danger. 

We’ve heard those stories of moms that can like lift up a car, or even Dr. Pettit had shared a story about a man who was saving all these people, he saw them drowning on the side of the road, and he went in and help them get out. And then safety people came or saving people came in, they wrapped him up and he was really shivering. And then somebody was talking to me said, Oh, you must be really cool. He said, Oh, no, I’m shaking, because I don’t know how to swim. But something had happened to him when he and that wasn’t even to him. He went into this life saving mode, and was able to somehow jump in and save these people. 

So the reason that I brought that up with physical symptoms is that there’s body wide changes that happen when we go into fight or flight or a stress response, whether it’s to actual danger, or just perceived. So that’s what can happen with anxiety is it’s very helpful in real danger, but not so much when if I was just starting to have I just started to feel anxious on this call, well, if I felt dangerous, and then I thought there was a problem with it. 

Also what can happen is we’re able to be in fight or flight for up to half an hour, every 24 or whatever, 48 hours, with no ill effects, it’s fine. Even if you’re like, oh my god, I overslept. And kind of got really fast.

But what happens with people when they have chronic stress or chronic anxiety is we’re in that stress response for three hours, six hours, eight hours a day, where we just get out of balance. So that’s why we can have experience physical symptoms. I’m obviously not a doctor. So you don’t want anyone to chalk up any physical symptoms. So please go to your checkups and not talking about go make sure everything’s fine. 

What can happen, I know I had headaches for I was like an anxious child. And I had headaches, since even before I could swallow a Tylenol pill. I had stomach aches, and I had ulcers like in high school. So my stomach would ache all the time. And I always had headaches. And then that kind of morphed to when I was like an adult, I would monitor my headaches and keep a headache journal. And it’s so funny. I mean, knock on wood. I never get headaches now. 

So rarely that one time, like two years ago, I had this pain in my head. And I went away on my day being busy and drinking water. And then I hit me, I’m like, Oh, I think I have a headache. Like I literally didn’t even realize that that’s what it was. But also then we can start to have very other weird physical symptoms, like, I would hold my breath, my breathing would come become dysregulated. But I would prolong it, because I hit actually read later after I got out of this phase of breathing, but sometimes animals hold their breath to like be as still as possible. But actually, it can also kind of help us feel a little detached. But so I would hold my breath. 

Now looking back, I could see if I was going to be like late with my kids, so if I started to think something was serious, it wasn’t going the way I wanted. For whatever reason. I would hold my breath a little but what would happen is I don’t know, when I would notice it that I was my breathing was off. And so this is, before I came into the principles, I thought I should do some square breathing, some belly breathing, because I had been trained and so much of the alternate nostril breathing, the square breathing, and I’m in LA. So I would do all of that, but it wouldn’t work. 

And I’m like, well, I should step it up, I’m going to go to a breathwork class, I’m going to go to a meditation and breath work class. But then literally, I would be like, I don’t know how to breathe, because I would be so in my head, when we were just, we breathe in the morning, when we’re one hour, one second old, we don’t have to think about it. So that’s where that hyper fixation can come in. 

Sometimes blinking, swallowing, seeing our nose, the tip of our nose, and, and then we can try to like, how do I think my way out of here, with our intellect. I can speak for me and what I’ve seen it happen. So if people are hyper focused on something, they can get into this cycle of really wanting it to go away. Sometimes from the moment they can wake up, and is it here, it starts instantly. 

I think another component is also if we’ve been in a chronic state of stress for months or years, it can sometimes take a little bit of time for the physical symptoms to go away. Nobody needs to be scared. There’s not permanent danger. But I was anxious for a long time, but very severely anxious for seven years. So, so much so. One symptom that I lost my period for three years didn’t have anything to do with weight or body fat. It was I was in such a chronic state of stress that my hormones change. I was in the postmenopausal range. So I guess, yeah, and but my son is nine, everything’s fine.

Our body’s going to take sometimes it sometimes a symptom can just go away. But sometimes it takes a little bit of time, just because I don’t want to scare anybody, like, oh, there was just a little bit of damage because we were in fight or flight for longer than we needed to be. And it’s often what I found is the symptom that we’re the most desperate for do to go away. Like for me? I don’t know, I did actually have a lot of thinking about headaches and stomach aches, but I have no idea when those just fell away immediately. 

I would have I twitches. I had so many symptoms, I can’t really remember them, but so many. And those most injuries fell away. But my breathing, I would sometimes be like, I would wake up and think Is it is it gone? And it was even after my driving anxiety and certain things fell away. I was like, why is this breathing thing here? 

It wasn’t until I had an insight about that listening to a podcast of Nicola Bird, she had John El-Mokadem on and something clicked when he was saying, what if this physical symptom was still here? And I realized at that moment, it was like, Oh, my life is so much better. So okay, my breathing is so weird. 

At that moment, I just stopped checking on it. And then next thing I knew, because I think what sometimes people can get in that kind of compulsive awareness of I’m seeing progress, but what about this one area? It’s often when we take our attention away that then it falls away,

Alexandra: Yes, exactly. I love that. 

It made me wonder do you do ever have a symptoms crop up now?

Lily: Yeah, I haven’t had the breathing one. But I had it around. I guess like three years ago. It was still like pandemic time. They were going to have a friend sleepover. And I remember my son had a friend over and my daughter had a friend over. And so the kids were running around and I was doing the dishes and I noticed that I held my breath and I was like oh. 

All I see it as a truly beautiful love letter. It was to me was a tap on the shoulder. Oh, I’m taking this seriously. I think especially because my son at that time was just probably like five even though he’s nine so maybe we’re maybe he was six. I still would sometimes think oh, I want playdates to go well, and when they’re six you might Oh, I don’t want the kids to be upset and you know, I have to have the sleepover because I told the parents I go out and enjoy your life. They were going to a party. And I remember I think, running around and probably thinking, Oh no, what if they fall? What if they get upset and holding my breath? 

That was the last time that happened. And I don’t know if I, oh, sometimes I’ll like my stomach. But it’ll be much like a shorter thing. But sometimes if I’m going to a party, or I’m going to on an airplane, my stomach will just hurt. And then but I’m like, oh, make sense, nothing to do. And but I think or sometimes, if I notice, I think it was last year, two years ago, it was last year for my birthday, I noticed that I was like a little dissociated when I was cleaning before people were coming over and talking to me, and I felt like I was removed. And so I was like, oh, so for me, I truly see them as love letters, where it’s like, I’m taking it too seriously. So it might sound strange if people are. But like, I’m grateful for those signals, because I truly see them as friendly alarms.

Alexandra: I think that’s such an important point that you’re looking at, we look at them so totally differently. Once we see what they really are, as you say, I call it a mindfulness bell. I love what you said about it’s just tapping you on the shoulder, letting you know, hey, you’re caught up in your thinking at the moment. 

Those signals are real gifts. And when we see them for that, then they don’t need to linger.

Lily: Yes, I’m also noticing sometimes I have a habit of taking things too seriously. I really think that noticing without judgment. And just the noticing is enough, because there’s nothing I need to do. Because Oh, I got it. Because I know it’s not that serious life is never that serious. It’s all okay.

Alexandra: Such a good point. 

We’re coming sort of towards the end of our time together, I wondered if there’s anything we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share for people who might be dealing with anxiety.

Lily: You have everything that you’re looking for. You really do because you have clarity, you have peace of mind, you have calm, it’s always there. And so you don’t even have to go looking for it. It’s when everything settles, and also that you’re designed to settle. But when it’s right there, I don’t know if I knew that.

Everybody that’s listening is sitting in the middle of mental health, sitting in the middle of clarity. Sitting there, because sometimes even people say, Oh, it’s horrible. If I took a medication that is the medication? Well, no, I mean, I’m not meaning to go on a tangent on that. But like, it just quieted your mind. And your well being it’s right there. 

I think one time actually, I was recording a course, in November, it’s August now. And I had been talking a lot and I was reading some poetry. My breathing actually started to get a dysregulated. But I used my intellect. And I was like, it must be because I’m putting pressure and I’ve been sitting in recording, I need to go to like a SoulCycle class. And do a lot of exercise. And so I did all this stuff. It was so funny, because SoulCycle was so loud. And I went all these times, and just for these few days, and then suddenly, I was like, and I had one day where I just sat and did nothing and I went to record and I realized, I don’t know how I realized that the only reason my breathing was dysregulated was because I was talking. Talking much more. I was recording for like six hours.

I took the long way home, looking for peace and good feeling at SoulCycle. And there wasn’t anything wrong with that. But it was like three days that were just a waste. And it wasn’t until I actually did nothing. Because SoulCycle actually was fun, but it was so loud that it hurt my ears. So then I was like, Ah, now I need earplugs. I tried like three different ones. And actually, I was like, one class isn’t enough, I need two classes in a row. So I’d done a package and I needed to figure out how to do two in a row and how to have my boyfriend get the kids and it was like and so the day I did two in the row. The earplugs made it weird. 

So then I was there on the second class and I have diabetes and I was like felt like low blood sugar. So it was so funny, because it was after that I just went home kind of feeling defeated. And it was when I stopped I had that insight. But also I didn’t beat myself up. 

Also with anxiety we don’t have to do it perfectly every time I met, I wouldn’t consider myself to have disordered anxiety. I never have panic attacks. I don’t have OCD. But sometimes I still, like that example. Sometimes, I still have a setback of sorts. And now, I don’t see it any differently as having a little symptom. I’m like, oh, because truly, my understanding goes deeper. 

I used to think doing the principles, right. I would hear people that would say, no, like, they’re still human. But I was like, well, I might if I just do them perfectly, like I’m always going to be present and happy. And no, because we were humans. But I notice it mostly irritability or the moment I hold my breath, I notice it. So I don’t take myself so seriously. 

I see wobbles or whatever is just truly opportunities. And that’s my thing. My understanding, I have insights all the time that really like seem to profoundly like I’ll see new thing is still five years and I know there’s going to be more for me to see. So anybody that’s feeling anxious to like, I guess it’s not to put too much pressure on yourself for the moment you get caught up or because it doesn’t mean you’re doing anything wrong. It just is the opportunities to see things.

Alexandra: Opportunities for greater insight. That’s so true. I love that. Well, this has been amazing, Lily.

Can you tell us where we can find out more about you and your work?

Lily: Yes, I really like posting on social media. So if anybody has social media on Instagram, Oh, me I always try to start with the ones that don’t have any high funny things in front of them but on tick tock I’m just at peace from within and but I know Instagram can be also annoying and unpleasant.

I do have a website which is just peace-from-within.com and there’s everything that you want there. I’m also on Instagram which is an underscore peace from within. But if you’re on anywhere you can usually find all of my stuff so if you on YouTube I think I’m just at peace from within as well. 

I have a lot of long free videos on YouTube and on my website and then on Instagram and Tiktok a lot of shorter. I think Instagram is like a greater wealth because I’ll do a lot of like q&a videos so if people ask questions, I answer them and it’s a fun medium for me fun way to just share about mental well being hopefully in a hopeful way a light hearted way about anxiety. 

I also have so there’s so much free content but I also have courses and options if anyone ever wanted to work one on one or learn more about how to have peace from I share a lot about what was my personal struggles which because those are the people that are drawn to me kind of specifically driving anxiety derealization intrusive thoughts, physical symptoms, health anxiety. 

So but actually, usually everyone’s anxiety falls away and then we end up talking about relationships and jobs, like and work and career but anybody that I work with long term it’s the anxiety falls away and then we focus on you know, on general life stuff.

Alexandra: Nice. Oh, that’s great. I will put links in the show notes at unbroken podcast.com So people can find where you are on the on the worldwide web. Thank you so much, Lily. It’s been just lovely chatting with you.

Lily: Thank you so much for having me on. It’s been lovely.

Featured image photo by Robert Lukeman on Unsplash