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The wisdom of the feelings in our bodies is so misunderstood. Today coach Sarie Taylor and I discuss how we can see the signals we feel for what they are and how they can help us navigate life. We don’t need to be afraid of being afraid.

You can find Sarie Taylor at WorldWideWellBeing.co.uk and on Instagram @sarietaylorcoaching.

You can listen above, on your favorite podcast app, or watch on YouTube. Notes, resources and a full transcript are below. 

Show Notes

• From travelling the world to not being able to leave the house
• How we fight the experience of being human
• How aiming to be average is more than enough
• How we are always feeling our thoughts
• Being in our heads or in our lives
• On anxiety being the fear of being anxious
• On future thinking and how it can be worse than the anxiety we expeirence
• How intrusive thoughts can be a signal that we need more sleep or we’re just in a low mood

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Dr. Bill Pettit

Transcript of Interview with Sarie Taylor

Alexandra: Sarie Taylor, welcome to Unbroken.

Sarie: Thank you for having me.

Alexandra: It’s lovely to have you here.

Give us a little bit about your background and how you found the Three Principles.

Sarie: Okay, so have to dig deep for this because it feels like all of the lifetime ago. When I was in my early 20s, I didn’t realize I was anxious, but I was very anxious. And I’d kind of been ignoring it. If people would have met me in my 20s, I would have said, Oh, you’re super confident, like more confident than most. But actually, deep down, I really wasn’t. But I pretended to be a lot.

It eventually caught up with me in my early 20s, and I ended up going from having been to university, traveled the world with my now husband and ending up within a space of two weeks not being able to actually physically leave the house with such severe anxiety. That then escalated from me not being able to leave the house to me not allowing my mom to leave the house, because I needed her there.

It regressed massively, to the point where she’d go to the local shops for a loaf of bread, and I’d have to go with her in the car. And I’d just cry the whole time in a panic when she was in the local store. And this is like I say, I had traveled the world at this point was a big shock out and I had no idea what was happening. Eventually, I pretty much begged the doctor to send me somewhere. I think my main driver for wanting to go into a mental hospital, or whatever you want to call it is because I wanted my mom to get some respite because I was very aware that she was a prisoner in her own home too. And I didn’t know how I was going to get out of it or change it.

So I spent a month in hospital, I was very heavily medicated. There was not really a medication that I wasn’t on. I was on a concoction of many, many different things. I came out of there after a month feeling, to be fair, quite chilled, but I would defy anybody who’s on not on beta blockers, diazepam and antidepressants all at once on the highest possible doses not to feel quite cheerful. But I was still frightened underneath and thinking what on earth do I do now? How do I get off these?

I was younger and wanting to have children, I knew that at some point, I’d have to try and come off them so. So I then went into exploring how to fix myself, which I know a lot of people who end up finding the Three Principles start off trying to fix themselves. And part of that was training to be a psychotherapist.

Because to be honest with you, I was quite embarrassed about where I’d ended up at the time, there was a lot of shame attached to it for me. So I didn’t still didn’t want to admit when I left there that was there was anything wrong with me. So in the UK, you actually have to be in therapy every week in order to train as a therapist. So that was much more palatable for me to say, I’m training as a therapist, so I’m in weekly therapy, but that’s because I feel like I’m broken and not because I want to a therapist. So that took me on to all sorts of things.

As you can imagine it helped a bit but it didn’t get rid of my anxiety. So then I tried NLP, DBT, CBT hypnotherapy, I’m trained in most of them as well. Got a lot of certificates, but I was still burning out every 18 months to the point where I would, again, not want to leave the house.

Then, nearly 10 years ago now, I came across a podcast, which talked about three principles. And first, I don’t know what it was, to be honest, that made me want to explore more. I know a lot of the time I would explore things out of desperation because it’s like, maybe this will be the answer. But I think the first podcast I heard it was like I really resonated with what the person was saying around them feeling anxious and trying to fix themselves. So I thought I’m going to look into this a little bit more. And it was then eventually when it really sort of hit me.

I was listening to a podcast by the wonderful Dr. Bill Pettit. And he just said something and I don’t know what he said, but something in that moment, I just realized, oh, wow, this is way simpler than I’d ever realized. And I burst into tears actually. Then I was hooked from that on it.

I went from not wanting to leave the house with panic attacks every day, every hour on the hour to in this conversation, my first panic attack was when I found out at age 45 that I was pregnant. Which I think that was quite understandable. But interestingly, even that panic attack after 10 years was very different, like, well, of course, I’m feeling panicked. Of course, my body’s responding in this way, because I’ve just been in my head for three days thinking, How on earth am I going to manage this?

So it was still a very different experience, but I have never ever looked back. And yeah, so it’s a way of life for me now. I’m also fortunate enough that I get to share it with other people as well.

Alexandra: You mentioned there that when you heard Dr. Pettit speak that it occurred to you how simple it things were.

Can you talk a little bit more about that, and what you began to see about the simplicity of it?

Sarie: Ironically, at the time I was listening to the podcast, I was going through one of my episodes of severe anxiety, and I’ll never forget, and I laugh about it now. But at the time, I was on an exercise bike in the house, whilst listening to a podcast, whilst eating an apple, because I was trying to eat better exercise and do some self-development, because that’s what I needed to do to fix myself. So it was like, I’m doing it all, and all at once, and I’m giving it full throttle. I will fix myself at all costs.

There was something in what he said, and again, to this day, I don’t know what he said, but it’s something that he said, I realized, I’m trying too hard to be something other than human. Right now, I am fighting and resisting this experience that I’m having that actually, I’m now starting to see very quickly is a really innocent misunderstanding of the human system.

When I look back now, at my periods of anxiety, I now see actually, that they were very simply my body and defense mechanisms weighing in, it was almost like it was a story that I had. And it was almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy where I do too much, I put too much pressure on myself, I’d have really high expectations. And then at some point, my body in my mind would just stop me completely in my tracks, because it was the only way I was going to stop. And it was that sort of the simplicity of it. Well, yeah, that makes sense.

That’s the only way I get any respite is when I am confined to the house, because I can’t physically get myself out because I am frightened of what’s behind that front door. I started to see it for what it really truly was. And to be honest, what that led to, which was a big, big change for me, was starting to see myself with a bit more compassion of how much I was on myself and what a full-time job trying to fix myself and how inadequate and broken I saw myself for many, many years.

Then that cycle then became, well, if I’m inadequate and broken every 18 months, then I need to make sure those months in between that I am overcompensating and making sure that I am the best version of myself I can ever be as opposed to … one thing I always teach, particularly to young people, and I love is to say, let’s just aim to be average, because average is great. And the irony is the more average, I was okay with becoming it was like things in my life, were just getting better and better. I’m like, Oh, hang on a minute. This is a little secret that I’ve missed. We aim to be average, often we saw because we’re taking so much pressure away rather than having to be something that sometimes we can’t and don’t need to be.

Alexandra: Were you are really high achieving student when you were in your teens?

Sarie: I didn’t do bad. In fact, no, I did. That was the sort of the dialogue I would have had is that my friends, some of my friends did better. And I could have done better but I was, you know, A’s and B’s. I did well, but where a lot of the stress and the overthinking for me came from was taking responsibility for everybody else.

I can remember it for years and years and years. I’m one of five siblings. I’m the eldest. And I would literally and now I just think how did this even make sense to me to do this, but I used to lie in bed at night before I go to sleep, before I had a child of my own. And I’d go through every sibling, are they okay? Do they need anything? What can I do to help them do but and I would literally see it as my responsibility to worry systematically about every sibling.

I still get the knocks on the door or the message can I borrow 20 quid or can I do this. I was more like a high achiever in a sense of making sure everyone was okay and being seeing myself as the more responsible one. And again, funnily enough, now I see how disempowering that was to my siblings, and that I wasn’t any better than them, I wasn’t in a better place to make sure they’re okay, and that it is quite disempowering. It’s very freeing to realize I don’t have to do that anymore.

Alexandra: For our listeners, if they’re experiencing anxiety at the moment, where would you say that comes from?

Sarie: We are only ever feeling our thoughts. There is there is no exception to that we are we are only ever in the feeling of our thinking. And so if you are feeling anxious, then you have a lot of anxious thoughts going around. It might not even be that you notice. It might be so habitual and so second nature, but if you’re feeling anxious, that is a surefire way to say that you are anxious. You’re having  anxious thinking about the future, what’s coming next. All the what ifs, what if this happens, what if that happens?

And so even though you might not even know what those thoughts are, if you’re feeling anxious that for me now, that is just an invite from your mind and your body to just get present. And get back in your life.

I was just doing a little reel earlier, just sharing that for me there’s two places I am in my life. And that’s either in my head or in my life. I can’t do both very well at the same time. And so if I’m feeling anxious, or on edge, or overwhelmed, or tired or anything, when I used to feel like that, I’d go into my head: I need to get rid of this anxiety and I need to make sure it doesn’t get worse and why is it there? And I’d overanalyze. Whereas now, again, the simplicity is it’s like, Oh, I feel anxious. I’m being invited to get in my life and out of my head.

Alexandra: How does one do that, get in your life?

Sarie: It’s an interesting one, because it’s our default to be in the moment. It’s like gravity. It’s like, I know, if I dropped something, it’s going to fall because of gravity. And so I know, if I get out of my head and stop holding on to thoughts, and analyzing and pre-empting and predicting, just like gravity, I’m going to fall into that present space. So rather than thinking how do I get more present, I always encourage people just to reflect and notice when you’re not and what’s happening there.

You’ll see that if you’re not present, chances are you are in your head to deal with something that isn’t here yet. That hasn’t happened yet. I love the saying of anything that follows the words ‘what if’ is an illusion. We spend time creating illusions. The thing about stories and illusions so you can get so elaborate and there’s no limitations and therefore we can get really frightened and scared and anxious.

Alexandra: We’re such imaginative creative creatures, we can make anything up.

Sarie: And we do, all of the time. But what we can’t make up what’s right now. We’re in something we’re in and actually we’re always being guided.

When I look back to what my panic was about, it eventually ended up and was quite common for a lot of people who experienced severe anxiety is my anxiety was actually only ever really about getting anxious in the end. So I feared that uncomfortable feeling that anxiety brought and spent so much of my waking day avoiding that feeling but therefore, indirectly, taking myself to it.

I think it’s that getting comfortable with the discomfort that sometimes that brings, but seeing it for what it is. Out of every single panic attack I ever experienced not one of them was I ever faced with imminent danger. Not one. I have 1000s. Not one of them where I was faced with imminent danger. And so we’re practicing and preparing for perceived or made up danger. That’s what’s creating the anxiety and the  panic because our bodies then over producing adrenaline that we don’t need.

We do feel it physically because the body’s getting you ready now to fight this scary thing that you’re telling yourself about. And so it gets the body ready. And the body’s like, what do I do with this? Because we’re not going anywhere. We’re just watching TV.

Alexandra: And that’s where the discomfort comes from in our bodies.

Sarie: Absolutely. And then that can lead to then more overthinking. I think one of the things that was helpful for me, and I think it was Dr. Bill Pettit that I heard talk about this originally, and I won’t do it as good just as him. But when adrenaline is pumped into the body, because we are sending a message to our lizard brain that we are in some sort of danger, that part of the brain is not sophisticated enough to go “Oh, Sarie’s catastrophizing, let’s not bother with the adrenaline, she’s just worrying in advance.”

It just assumes that what you’re telling it is true. Now that adrenaline actually only lasts in the body for around, don’t quote me on this, but around eight minutes. And in actual fact, after about four minutes, it halves. And so the discomfort that comes with that adrenaline surge doesn’t last that long.

But then people will say it lasts all day for me, and I get that because it would for me, but the reason for that is as soon as we then get physical symptoms of palpitations or pins and needles or feeling a bit dizzy. It’s then re injecting ourselves with more and more adrenaline, adding layers and layers to the worry of why do I now feel like this? What’s happening? Will it get worse?

When in actual fact, the more we can sit with the discomfort through understanding and being a bit more able to see it for what it really is, it doesn’t stay around for very long.

Alexandra: If someone’s experiencing that all day, or for hours and hours, what they’re doing is continually firing up that adrenaline in their body.

It’s a new dump of adrenaline.

Sarie: Yeah. And then if we do that for a certain amount of time, then the body starts to produce cortisol stress hormone, because it’s like, oh, this adrenaline isn’t quite working. So we need something bigger and better. And then we get stress hormone. And that lasts for longer. So that’s then can make it more difficult, if you like, in that moment for us to settle that down quicker.

One of the things that I’m really passionate about, and we’ll say this now, whilst we’re talking about this, I was told by a therapist many years ago, that because I lived a lot of my life in fight or flight, which I did from a very young age, I produced a lot of adrenaline for a long time and had this habit of producing it and creating dramas out of everything. I was told that I would just have to learn to manage that.

What I can say is that now I have a very different experience of life. My adrenaline levels are not through the roof all the time anymore, so they can settle and will settle once we start to understand enough that we’re not constantly setting off that internal alarm to keep producing the adrenaline.

And the other thing with cortisol in the body is because it’s the hormone that the body prioritizes over any other it will then mess with your hormonal imbalance, which is why a lot of women who are anxious end up going to the doctor because they believe they have some kind of hormonal imbalance. And they probably would have in that moment if they were tested. But it’s not because there’s a problem with their hormones. It’s because they’re stressed.

Alexandra: And it’s skewing things.

Sarie: Yes. Because the body’s saying, Well, we can’t worry about that hormone and that hormone right now, because we’re just having to keep this person alive. And they’ve got a lot of problems and danger, and it’s stressful. And that’s what we need to focus on.

Alexandra: Once again, the brilliance of the body is amazing.

One of the questions I had prepared for you was what can we do when we feel anxious about being anxious? I love this exploring this.

Sarie: When we feel anxious about getting anxious, what we’re really talking about is that we’re scared of the discomfort or the feeling that we have defined as bad. I think with understanding and exploring the principles and in whichever way people want to do that, like listen to podcasts, like yourself, It’s for you to start to see that you are safe and you’re okay.

I always remember my youngest brother, he was an MMA fighter. So he would go into the ring and he’d have fights. Now I couldn’t sit and watch him because it would just make me so physically sick and scared. I just couldn’t do it. But he said, he used to love that feeling. He said his ears would be ringing, his sight would go [narrow]. The sheer amount of adrenaline that would go into his body going into that room sounds extreme. And yet, that’s why he did it. Because he loved that feeling.

He’s got three children and when his wife went into labor with one of the kids, I remember him bringing me afterwards he said, Yeah, it’s all fine. He said, I had to go out the room. They were had awful. No, didn’t say awful. He said, I had a panic attack, quite a bad panic attack. So here’s me going, Oh, my goodness, that’s all for what happened? Oh, no, it was fine. It was all right. I actually. And then he said, it was like I was in a tunnel in my head. So I just went out of the room. And then I sort of came out of it.

And here’s me feeling terrible for him. And he made me laugh, he said I actually quite like that feeling. And he’d said that to me before the past with that he likes that feeling of, he said something along the lines of it’s just me and the universe and nobody or nothing else. It’s he goes into this in his head. And for some people, that could be a really scary experience. But because he knows what’s happening it and that’s the feeling that he was going for when he was stepping into the ring every time. There’s people who do extreme sports and extreme things for that adrenaline rush. They don’t see it as bad. It just is an adrenaline rush.

Alexandra: That’s such a great explanation of that. It’s a feeling. It’s a thing that’s happening.

When we demonize that kind of thing, and then become afraid of it, that’s what creates problems.

Sarie: Because we’re instantly saying, if that happens, it’s really bad. I always feel a little bit hesitant when I’m talking about this, because I know if somebody had said to me when I was in the throes of panic attacks every single day, oh, it’s just an experience. It’s not, I would have wanted to honestly just punch them in the face. You clearly don’t understand because this is not just an adrenaline rush. But actually, it is.

The more we understand that, okay, so when we’re in that state of mind, when we’re in that, in our heads, and we’re overthinking and the body surge of adrenaline, to be able to understand then that we’re not going to make sense of that, we’re not going to rationalize that in the moment. So that we don’t need to try and do that. And just understanding that if we just sit with it, it’s going to pass.

Something I used to find myself when I was in the beginning of the conversation of the Three Principles asking myself quietly in times of when I was starting to feel panic build up, say, right in this very moment, am I okay? Right now? And it was always yes. Because what was making me not okay or feeling like I wasn’t okay wasn’t even the panic attack I was having in that moment, it was how much worse will this get? Will this ever stop? It was still future thinking.

I could actually deal with the panic. I know it’s different for everybody. But for me would end up with me going to the toilet feeling sick and retching and then I would just cry and then it would go. It was the same every time. And so I managed and dealt with that as and when it showed up.

But the actual feeling of dread and adrenaline and panic was coming from Will it go away? What if it gets worse? What if this and what if that? I hear it so often with people what if I pass out? What if this? What if people see me? What if I throw up?

Alexandra: Do you now ever experience symptoms of anxiety?

Sarie: Not really, very rarely I do. I’d now describe it as being on it. So having a one year old baby I am sleep deprived, there is no doubt about that I am lacking in sleep. Sleep was always a massive trigger for me with anxiety because it was at the end of a two week stint of barely sleeping that I ended up in hospital. So it was always I need my sleep, otherwise I won’t be okay. And so even that now is a different experience.

I know that I’m tired. I know that when I’m tired, I can have intrusive or anxious thoughts. But I also know that they don’t mean anything, and I don’t need to pay attention to them. And again, they’re just a sign for me to need more sleep, or to get the rest if I can, or the support.

It’s interesting, because I’ve got a 16 year old and a one year old. And that’s a whole other podcast episode. When I had my 16 year old, I wasn’t in the conversation of the Three Principles. That’s when I was I had not been out of hospital, probably only about a year or so. No, it would have been a few years actually. And I was really postnatally anxious when I laid awake at night with really intrusive, awful thoughts, I thought I was the worst mom in the world, it was a really difficult time.

And now, this time, I had a couple of intrusive thoughts in the beginning, where I was stood on we’ve got like a mezzanine in our home that we’ve got, and there’s like a glass thing, and a thought just pops in my head and thought, imagine if you tripped and threw her, or imagined if you just threw her. And then the next minute my head’s imagining a pool of blood on the floor. Now I just laugh to myself, because my thoughts don’t scare me. And I laugh to myself because I thought, God, you need sleep.

Whereas when I had my other daughter, thoughts like that escalated into weeks of torture and suffering because I thought there was something wrong with me and that people didn’t have these thoughts unless they were terrible people. I didn’t want to tell anyone in case they thought I was completely mental.

Up until the point where then I had to tell people because I didn’t want to be on my own. I can see how just an innocent intrusive thought that just pops in because you’re tired or in a lower state of mind or a lower mood can be just seen as that as a sign, an alarm to go try and get more sleep if you can, or whatever it was telling me just listen to your body. Or that could escalate, which it did, to not wanting to be on my own again, going to the doctors to get antidepressants and feeling like I was the worst mom in the world for many, many months.

Alexandra: So this snowball effect that tiny little thing comes through, and then it grows and grows and grows and we feed it. Such a good point.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about too, speaking of anxiety, is learned fears and phobias.

You have a post on your website about the spider in the bath. Can you talk to us about that, please?

Sarie: One thing about having a baby and being in this conversation at the same time, it’s been an absolute wonderful gift really, because I am seeing human nature in all its beauty and glory right from day one, again, with fresh eyes. Seeing that my daughter is present by default. And I am seeing that she doesn’t judge herself. She cries one minute, she laughs the net, she gets angry that actually gets she’s not bothered. She’s not judging herself. She’s just loving on herself every day regardless of how she’s showing up. And it’s amazing to see.

I was in the bathroom with her. Probably any parents listen to this with young children. I think I was on the toilet. So then the 16 year old comes in, asking me a question and then the then the baby toddles in. So then we’re all in the bathroom at this point. And my teenager instantly said to me, “There’s a spider in the bath. Oh my god, oh my god, don’t move! A spider! Get the baby. Get the baby.”

And my instant reaction was to go. Oh, yeah, let’s see. And then my wisdom in that second just went no. I looked at her and she was so curious and excited to see this spider in the bath. And it was in that moment I just said to my older daughter. Let’s not do this. We’re just about to instill a belief, a conditioned belief, on her that that spider is scary. Right now she doesn’t see that. And so she was trying to get in the bath.

There was no water in the bath and this spider’s just around the tub. So I lifted her up, put her in the tub and for about five minutes. The joy on her face trying to catch that spider with her hands. She was so happy to the point now if we see a spider, she’s so excited. And it really hit home to me in that moment. It’s like she learned she could very quickly learn in that moment from us spiders are scary.

And you know what was funny? I went into the lounge five minutes after and her children’s TV was on in the background. And there was a program and it had a spider in it. I laugh because even the program they were like, Oh, this scary spider. And it’s like, it’s everywhere. He’s like, Oh, let’s all be scared of spiders where people have tarantulas as pets.

It’s not a given that we’re scared of anything. I always bring any fear down to three things. And I always call it the three Us:

1. Uncertainty,
2. Unknown, and;
3. Unpredictability.

My mom has a fear of a phobia of frogs. She doesn’t know why. She doesn’t remember why. But I can remember as kids, when we thought it was a bit of a joke, or mom’s a bit scared of frogs. We didn’t realize how scared she was. And so we’d bring them to the house. Until this one day we brought one to the door and she locked us out. And it was hours before she would let us back in the house. Like literally like, Come on, mom. This is enough. Now she’s like, No, she’s so petrified.

If she saw one now you can see the very instant physical reaction, the color drops out of her face. She shakes, she panics. It’s instant. And when I say to her, what is it that you’re thinking about this frog? She’s says I don’t know, it could jump up at me. I don’t like the idea that it’s slimy or what it feels like. I said, Have you ever touched one? No, but I just think it feels like this. It’s the uncertainty of the unknown and the unpredictability of the frog that she’s afraid of. And it’s the same with anxious about getting anxious. We’re anxious about the uncertainty, the unknown and the unpredictability.

Alexandra: That’s so true. We feel like we can’t control it. It’s out of our control. That’s the unpredictability and that yeah, the uncertainty, how long will it last? Will it get worse? And what’s the third one?

Sarie: The unknown. Not being able to predict or know for sure.

I think they say that we’re born with only two natural, inbuilt fears. One is a fear of falling. And another is fear of loud noises. So when you hear a bang, you see a baby might jump like that. Other than that, everything is learned.

Alexandra: That’s such a good point. I experienced a lot of urgency – anxiety in the form of urgency – for years. And I can see too, that one of the ways that I dealt with the uncertainty about that, like trying to control it was just by going faster and doing more.

Sarie: And then it’s over with.

Alexandra: Yes. And the crazy thing is, it never went away.

I used that coping strategy and it didn’t work, but I kept doing it anyway.

Sarie: That’s a definite way to get more adrenaline into your system as well, by going faster.

Alexandra: That was the thing. I think I was just flooded so much of the time. By trying to go faster.

We touched on hormonal imbalance, which was one of the things we I wanted to talk about, and I think we’ve kind of covered that. And about how that adrenaline flooding can affect the natural balance that’s there.

Anything else you can say about that?

Sarie: I suppose I’ve recently done some a little bit of work with an endocrinologist who and she’s a wonderful hormone specialist. And, ultimately what it comes back to every time we’ve spoken about, any sort of hormones, even people talk about menopause as being hormonal imbalance, perimenopause, it’s not an imbalanced, in a way, our hormones are imbalanced, because they’re imbalanced, if that makes sense. They’ve got to balance each other out and they work together.

There’s so much going on behind the scenes where it’s all working in our favor. And for the greater good of us in our bodies. But when we throw something else into the mix, like something we’ve predicted and particularly menopause and hormones get such a bad reputation in that people dread it 10 years before they hit perimenopause, because they’ve been told a million times how awful it’s going to be. And, and yet, that doesn’t have to be the experience.

I’ve spoken to many people within the Three Principles community who had awful perimenopausal symptoms yet with the understanding they went away. Because, again, if our body’s having to work twice as hard to do what it’s doing. Menopause, is the body getting ready for the next phase of our life. Well, if it’s trying to do that, and yet we’re not respectful of that, and we don’t slow down and we don’t take care of ourselves as best we can. And we don’t stop getting too caught up in the ‘What if?’ then the body’s got to work twice as hard to get where it needs to be. It almost comes down to the less we interfere with nature and what’s intended, the easier everything is.

Alexandra: So well put. That’s exactly that’s how I see it as well.

Sarie: People look to hormonal imbalance for a reason. Because a reason for anxiety because I know, again, having been in that situation, I mean, the amount of times I went to the doctors with my anxiety, assuming there was some kind of hormonal imbalance. Was it my thyroid? Was I low in vitamin D? I was always looking for a reason because I didn’t understand or couldn’t see how something that felt so awful, could just come from my thinking.

It was almost too simple to believe, if you like, and yet my experience of even having throughout my own menstrual cycle, my hormones, really struggling with lots of symptoms. That again, in the last 10 years, I’ve been in this understanding, I don’t have that same experience every month anymore. It’s not a coincidence.

Alexandra: That’s right. We don’t appreciate how powerful our thinking is.

As we come to the end of our time together, is there anything else you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on today?

Sarie: For anyone that’s new to the Principles, or this might even be the first podcast ever come across, keep exploring is all I can say. I came into this conversation to fix my anxiety and here I am, 10 years later, and it is brought me and given me so much more than just changing my relationship with anxiety. So keep going, I would say.

Stay curious. Even when we start to doubt the Principles, is this really too good to be true? That’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. Getting curious is good. So just keep listening. Keep getting curious because all it can do is enrich your experience of life.

Alexandra: Oh, that’s great. Thank you. So where can we find out more about you and your work?

Sarie: I run an organization called Worldwide Wellbeing Limited. So you can find me at worldwidewellbeing.co.uk or SarieTaylorCoaching. You can find me all over social media. Everywhere on social media. I’m one of you people of my age that quite like social media, so you can find me there too.

Alexandra: Great. Oh, that’s awesome. I’ll put links in the show notes at unbrokenpodcast.com.

Sarie, it’s been a great pleasure. Thank you so much for being with me today.

Sarie: Thanks for having me.

Alexandra: Take care.

Featured image photo by Kalen Emsley on Unsplash